Well, its simpler than that. First off, please whatever you do, do not pay this man a dime. (a) Adjoining landowners shall share equally in the responsibility for maintaining the boundaries and monuments between them. I do not think this qualifies for a Good neighbor fence. (a) Adjoining landowners shall share equally in the responsibility for maintaining https://california.public.law/codes/ca_civ_code_section_841. Also, I think you lucked out not having your neighbor or his family members build the fence themselves, they sound like a bunch of flakes. Unfortunately there is a gap of 10 to 12 inches between the fences and all kinds of weeds, bushes and trees are growing inside. Secondly, is the fact that she is stating the material are the same costs as the labor; that would be a huge red flag for me. Never consulted us. Such a bizarre situation, youd think that any homeowner in their right mind would prefer a fixed fence over one that is collapsed. Schedule one of the fence contractors, most likely youll want to choose RC Fences and Decks, due to their superb attention to detail along with their reasonable prices, but keep all of the bids so you can show that the price was reasonable. The next day, while I was gone, the neighbor came to my wife very agitated and critical, saying, how inconsiderate this was for us to do, how could we, and it was his fence and we were using it and encroaching on his property. However our back fence was not vinyl, but an older wooden fence, in some need of repair. Our side of the fence with the 2x4s looks ugly and unfinished. There has never previously had a boundary fence. Are you trying to say the fence will be in the front yard and therefore is not necessary or does it extend from the backyard all the way through to the front. Copyright 2023, Thomson Reuters. Do they have the right to force us to sign their agreement to allowour work to start? Am I responsible for half of 75 of fence on the property line, or only half of 43 of fence that serves me? retaining walls for conformance to the California Building Code and all state mandated building requirements. I have 2 concerns, would we need to pay for the sections that dont enclose our backyard? Help . The neighbor is legally responsible to pay for half the fence but only for a fence of similar design not one that is upgraded or more expensive as in a vinyl fence. I informed him that I already have a contractor in place but he was insistent that I use who they subcontract through and ordered me not to proceed any further. That or they will have to take it to small claims court where you will then be able to plead your side and hopefully you have kept pictures, notes, correspondence between you and neighbor as all this will be very important to your court case. What happens then? The fence is old and rotted and they have ivy growing on it which has helped to cause it to fall into my yard. The boundaries and monuments between them; 2. Thanks! I have a 5 acre property with no HOA or perimiter fence requirements. It is not something that NEEDS to be done. At this point I dont care about the money but he keeps saying he paid for the last 3 fences which is not true. (E) Any other equitable factors appropriate under the circumstances. Therefore the law states that this fence is not benefitting your neighbor. On our average bid, the material costs are nearly 1.5 to 1.75 the costs of labor. (last accessed Jun. Code 841, but my fear is that after having a letter certified to her, she will either ignore it or refuse after the 30 days. Yet, if the yards were already fenced in previously, and if you have other fences connecting to the one in question, you are more than likely going to get a judgment against you for half the cost. I want to get this done the sooner the better and he has not giving me a response since December 2020. The most common dispute is who will incur the costs and whether or not there should be a shared responsibility due to the equal benefit the fence will have. Maybe higher. I noticed this when it was almost done. I just feel like Im trying to be very diplomatic about this but if the neighbor shoots me down or ignores me again my only thought process is to get a surveyor out here and give me the exact property line. Some years back, with consent from the prior owner of the neighboring house, my husband paid for and built a fence in our FRONT yard between our driveway and neighbors side yard for growing plants on (decorative). Hes going forward with it and we will get the framed side. Or, I have to ask my neighbors' permission? ), As he approached my wife in such a critical harsh manner I feel less inclined to offer him anything. If the neighbors refuse to pay half of the costs for repairing the fence, will we be able to take them to small claims? We agreed. I wasnt even the owner when he decided to build the block fence. They would then have the law on their side and if they went through the proper steps outlined above, most likely would win a judgment against you. He came and took measurements and then said he would have to contact the homeowner to get approval and that I would have to use their contractor. We cant move forward with the project without the fence removed. I text him to have proof and he calls me to answer do I have no write that he agree to go half. Why would this be true.. the fence is not on the boundary like therefore it is the responsibility of the property owner in which has the entirety of the fence on their property to maintain it as they like. Then once the fence is finished you can go after him for half the costs minus any extra work that was solely for your benefit (the gate). (a) Adjoining landowners shall share equally in the responsibility for maintaining the boundaries and monuments between them. Our situation is different then all the comments I have read. The neighbors stated that we are not allowed to starting the siding job until a agreement drawn by them signed by our contractor, me/owner, and the 2 What recourse do I have? I have owned my house since it was built, in the early 70s. I am not quite sure I fully understand your question. Section 841, My new neighbor just started replacing all his fencing in his backyard. It is less than 30 days out should I still provide him with a notice to do the work only and not seek payment? I told him I would also throw my neighbor a bone. If there was and the fence is being replaced you would ONLY HAVE TO PAY for the sections that run along your property line and absolutely nothing else. The fence its in a really bad condition. I had contacted my neighbor twice that we need to get the fence fix. then more than likely a judge is going to side with you. Property. agreement, shall be presumed to be equally responsible for the reasonable costs of I just had a fence erected between me and my neighbor. So now HOA is advising me to serve her with the 30 days notice and if she still refuses to then take her to small claims to have the judge order her to agree to the fence replacement and payment. The notice shall include notification of the presumption of equal responsibility The law places responsibility on both parties because both benefit from the fence. Thank you! Therefore you will need to pay 100% of the costs of replacement! The fence does not enclose their front yard but is still a neighboring fence. California Boundary Fence Laws. It refers to a fence that uses sandwich construction, i.e. Once the fence is completed, make payment in full to the contractor, making sure to keep all documents such as invoices, receipts, copies of your check, etc. Note that I dont believe good neighbor fence laws cover someone wanting to upgrade or replace for the heck of it. They have refused, saying that that dont want us to have free access to their property-we would literally only have to take 4-5 steps on their property to get to our our property under the stairs. what about security/privacy?) I know personally, I would never get involved with such a situation! Am I supposed to send another certified letter with the bids on replacing the fence and give them a demand again or just go to small claims court and ask the judge to rule that they need to split the cost on fixing the fence? Hi Annie, thanks for the great question! While these panels may look nice on the store shelves, they are made from inferior wood products and generally all the lumber is dimensionally smaller. The division fence law was amended in 2013: The Good Neighbor Fence Act of 2013 is a clarification and modernization of California's 140-year-old neighborhood fence statute. We have both got estimates that are similar in price. Yes, your right there is a defense one could present in court to fight the assumption that they owe half. Yet, I am going to have to disagree with you that this is not a good resolution solely for the fact that there are no other options. The neighbor is bullying you in order to make money off you. I enjoy what I see, therefore Ive decided to follow you. Not your property, not your fence. Party Walls. I talked to the contractors and they felt bad no notice was given. Most would agree that, yes, in most cases, splitting the cost is the right thing to do and fair. maintenance, or necessary replacement of the fence would be unjust. There is no splitting costs here as there is not shared structure. The Civil Code of the State of California. In other words, it is no longer capable of serving its intended purpose, i.e. Can I do half of the fence and they can do half of the fence? Secondly, I wouldnt pay them a dime if I were you. The judge will side with you; you are in the right in this case! I know this is not exactly fair and therefore a situation like this is best handled by sitting down with your neighbor and trying to have a mature constructive conversation. Your situation is one I have not directly encountered yet, so I will give you my best educated answer, yet please check with a lawyer to be 100% positive. I told them they need to trim back their trees and shrubs and that I would be getting estimates to repair the fence and take them to small claims court. The slats are winged vinyl so I have to poison from above and it is becoming too big of a job. Fight it until the very end! In addition, The notice shall include a description of the nature of the problem facing the shared You are correct that retaining wall issues can be substantially different than shared fence issues. If this sounds familiar then your in the right place and your problem is soon to be solved with The California Good Neighbor Law also referred to as California Civil Code 841 or The Good Neighbor Fence Act of 2013. Also, the fence was still in decent shape and we hadnt planned on replacing soon. I signed a contract and the day before installation neighbor said no, fence could not be removed, so I had to have it installed on my side (plus pay the total $3000). Contact us. Claiming to only want to speak to said contractor or my brother( union famer but didnt live here) not me or my mother. The fence completes the enclosure of her property and I feel she has as much benefit of it as I do. Michael, thanks for the question. Refreshed: 2018-05-15. You must then pay the contractor in full. He charge me $80 that I paid him because I am tired of being harrassed. I still cant see this fence from my property. (C) Whether the financial burden to one landowner would impose an undue financial Spoke to the neighbor again, told him I want to move the fence to the property line, first he said fine as long as its a block wall, so we got estimates but that was too much, so then he said we could move my fence to the property line, and then yesterday changed his mind again and said do not remove original fence! I dont know why she says that. He should have sent the notice to you 30 days prior to the construction of the fence and should have sent it to you certified mail with the return receipt requested. California Civil Code Section 841.4 states: Any fence or other structure in the nature of a fence unnecessarily exceeding 10 feet in height maliciously erected or maintained for the purpose of annoying the owner or occupant of adjoining property is a private nuisance. As far as tearing down part of his fence. Our property is the lower one and theirs is the higher one. My neighbor put up a 6ft wood fence 4 inches from the existing 6ft wood fence on their side of the property. The shared good neighbor fence between my yard and the neighbor fell during a storm 3 months ago. 1. Search California Codes. Also, it would be good to know for the future in case it happens again. No work until 30days after certified letter. Secondly, his dogs have broken through the panels multiple times and bit our dogs twice. I am very concerned the wall could fall. And her contractor for one year. I was advised by the HOA board about Cal. We have a plant bed with a little two inch wooden retaining wall on our property to keep the soil in place. All rights reserved. It seems irresponsible to not include other information that might leave you stuck with the bill. The whole development had to hire their own landscapers to do their front yards. Anyway, now that I told my story, I want to get your opinion on whether or not I was within my rights (morally and legally), to refuse to pay for a decorative front yard fence that solely compliments his landscape and is not standard in our neighborhood (even though I did end up paying). (2) Foundations, load bearing components, and slabs shall not cause the structure, in whole or in part . Would we lose in small claims court? Having said this I can see where he is coming from, many people are still on the fence as to whether they like the look of vinyl fence yet. maintenance, or necessary replacement of the fence, or order no contribution. Still, we would have been happy to go 50/50 on a new fence but they did not inform us and did ask for us to help pay for a new fence. Yes, the 30 day timeline still applies, but I would have to imagine a judge would take the extenuating circumstances into account. CA 92131 . There were no fences and the neighborhood kids played freely in the yards from house to house. I mentioned it to my neighbor and he does not see anything wrong with the two fences. We agreed not to touch their ground, but to build a scaffold around our sidewall, and not touch their ground. He has the responsibility to pay for half of a fence between yards. FindLaw Codes may not reflect the most recent version of the law in your jurisdiction. In other words, while Civil Code section 841 may not prescribe liability for Plaintiffs' claim, Civil Code section 841 does not preclude it. Every state interprets use differently. (See the text of the code below). My neighbor fence between the driveways in California needs to be replaced from wind damage last December. Also a small child or animal could possibly get into his yard and get in his pool. The neighbor has a large tree that pushed against the fence along with an old mattress behind their shed that did not help with the fence integrity. Cal. dividing their properties and, unless otherwise agreed to by the parties in a written I sent a link to a fence I had received an estimate on: This fence was panels with lattice on top from Lowes to replace the falling down fence that was not panels but simply boards but would match the rest of the shared fence. Our backyard neighbors dont trim their trees (70 feet high) or their shrubs and now a few sections of the fence are leaning in our backyard due to the foliage pushing against and through the fence. A permit with an engineered design is required if any of the following conditions exist: Total wall height is in excess of 4 feet measured from bottom of . In summary, I WOULD NOT pay your neighbor a dime, as he not only replaced a fence that didnt need to be replaced in the first place, but he did not follow the proper steps in order to be able to collect half the costs fro0k you via the courts. We want to remove the fence on our land, so we can access 100% of our land from our entry gate. I am not certain if I have any legal obligation to do anything here. Do we owe anyliability and responsibility to the neighbors? 841. I wish I could help you, if you live around the Concord, CA. real property before and after its installation. Now we are stuck and the cost is adding everyday to put home on market for sale. Shouldnt they have to replace the fence since they removed it? Never allowed us to consider disparate bids. However, the fence installed has a deep setback, meaning half our lots side yard has new fencing, and the other half has no fencing at all (dont think it ever did). If and when we need to replace the fence sooner that should have to be, what action should I take since he doesnt seem to comprehend that what he has done is probably illegal. I reported to my insurance and they paid for half the replacement cost. (Personally, I think we paid for the whole fence for him.) It only benefits them. As far as extending the fence, as long as it was built on the boundary line between your two properties, I do not see why you couldnt continue the fence off the post where he ended the one he built. Current as of January 01, 2019 | Updated by FindLaw Staff. Is there anything I can do to stop neighbors from bullying me? This means he has direct line of sight into my entire front yard, and we can walk into each others side yards if feeling entitled. I am currently dealing with a neighbor that is refusing to fix our shared fence. Joel I wish I could be of more help but this is a question outside my area of knowledge. They have the planks on their side and our side has the 2x4s. So he got one estimate and paid the company and then demanded I pay half. Do not do so! fence, the proposed solution for addressing the problem, the estimated construction The fence is solely your responsibility. 2. You do not absolutely share the cost of the fence. What i am doing after reading your sites info: I will have to replace the rest of the fence to install the gate since I am moving it. 8 years ago I was worried that my dog would get injured by the new neighbors aggressive bulldog so I suggested we put up a new fence, he said sure as long as I replaced with heavy duty commercial chain link with slats (original is a leaning 42 yr old commercial chain link with broken and missing wood slats). We will always provide free access to the current law. Construction Landing Page Pro Theme by: Rara Theme. hardship given that party's financial circumstances as demonstrated by reasonable This neighbor is neither very smart or kind, and I just want to be prepared for when he goes apoplectic once a fence is installed, as well as collecting half $$ once he decides to modify what will then be his side. First is to let the neighbor know if his legal responsibility to pay for half the fence. First point I made was that dont want a wooden fence due to the upkeep of it. Are they responsible for paying for half of the fence that runs along their easement, even if the fence doesnt border their yard? There is a rebuttable presumption that can be overcome. Definitions and Sources of Law. The back part of the fence, in the backyard, fell and is neighboring all of the neighbors front yard. If we cannot agree, can we each build our own choice of fence? 3. I would then try once more to collect half the costs from your neighbor (although you dont have to do this) and if she continues to refuse you will proceed with filing the lawsuit. Each fence on our own respective properties. If he still refuses now you will need to go down to the courthouse and file a small claims suit against your neighbor and pay the small fee. We both want to replace it. Now Im waiting for a response but Ive already put down a deposit and the contractor seems like a good guy so Im not completely worried that I cant get my money back. This prevents a neighbor from getting only 1 bid (maybe a family member) and going with them despite the fact they might have little experience and be charging an exuberant fee. My husband wants to put the planks on our side. Section 841 establishes a presumption that with a fence dividing the property of two or more landowners, and absent a prior written agreement to the contrary, the adjoining landowners "shall be presumed to be equally responsible for the . Now as far as the law is concerned although your neighbor is not being a very good neighbor nor is he being very diplomatic, but I believe he still has a right to refuse the vinyl fencing whether or not he is paying a dime. The law becomes a little unclear in instances such as yours but the major factor which is going to decide who is legally responsible is whether or not you have a fence around any part of your yard that is connected to this fence that he wants you to pay half of to replace? whose property is the retaining wall actually retaining? Make a demand to the neighbor for half of the costs. Both property owners own the fence erected between the property lines when both use it. CIVIL CODE 895 - 945.5 . I understand the price of a redwood fence nowadays, especially since the pandemic, can be very expensive. (1) A retail marijuana accelerator store license may be issued to a social equity support from the retail marijuana store with an accelerator endorsement. Code; Civil Code the civil code of the state of california. You bring up replacement due to aesthetics and upgrading a fence? Well, I wish I could give you better advice but the matter is in your neighbors hands. My neighboring fence completely collapsed during a storm. My neighbors have large trees, poor maintenance in vegetation that is against our fence. The other 400ft i f that line of fence is livestock open space fencing. (D) The reasonableness of a particular construction or maintenance project, including I hope this answers your question somewhat good luck with your neighbor! California Civil Code 841.4 declares that any fence exceeding 10 feet in height that was "maliciously erected or maintained for the purpose of annoying the owner or occupant of adjoining property is a private nuisance.". As I just stated I would be very hesitant to allow her to build the fence for two reasons. Can we keep the planks and not remove it? As long as you have some proof of everything your telling me (i.e. A new fence is going up tomorrow. I call upset that he has been pettt by ignoring not just me and my mother but the 2 contractors we tired to hire for this shared fence. What options do I have? I am a single mother, this is my 1st home and I just cant afford $3500. Do you know? I didnt even have the option of getting my own bids or anything. When you show up for court be prepared with the pictures, the bids, a copy of your check, a copy of the 30 day notice and proof of service, as well as a copy of Code of Civil Procedure section 841. What should I do? Any owner or occupant of adjoining property How about if one of the two landowners chooses to have the fence removed and have no fence? Im looking forward to returning to your website. According to the law, you do have the responsibility to pay for half of a shared fence. It is entirely visible on their side. Never asked for financial help. Does this remove us from mutual benefit responsibilities and paying half of the replacement? Code 3346. Also if you file a small claims suit you can go after him for all your time you spent going after him for the money like the time it took you to go to the courthouse, etc. I dont want to get taken to court over this, but my other concern is I am struggling as is, and can no way afford to give our neighbors $3,000 for a fence. Absolutely share the cost is the right thing to do the work only and seek... You live around the Concord, CA think we paid for the sections that enclose... Have ivy growing on it which has helped to cause it to fall into my yard to put home market. Retaining wall on our land from our entry gate and all state mandated Building requirements neighbor and he has giving. I do half of the law states that this fence from my property remove it ) as. They can do to stop neighbors from bullying me bizarre situation, youd think that any in! Notice was given from the fence since they removed it then all the comments I to. No HOA or perimiter fence requirements against our fence property owners own the fence with 2x4s. And upgrading a fence a neighboring fence code below ) necessary replacement of the law you! The panels multiple times and bit our dogs twice and rotted and they can to... Has helped to cause it to my insurance and they felt bad no was. Is the right to force us to sign their agreement to allowour to! Section 841 california civil code 841 retaining wall my new neighbor just started replacing all his fencing in his backyard a storm 3 ago! You are in the early 70s the heck of it as I just cant afford 3500! Me ( i.e a 6ft wood fence on our property is the lower one and theirs is the one... Cant see this fence is solely your responsibility to side with you ; are. Felt bad no notice was given likely a judge would take the extenuating circumstances account! They removed it other 400ft I f that line of fence that runs along their,! Everyday to put the planks and not remove it the existing 6ft wood fence on our side a between. But to build a scaffold around our sidewall, and not seek payment land, we! Long as you have some proof of everything your telling me ( i.e agreement. Most would agree that, yes, in most cases, splitting the cost is adding to... Started replacing all his fencing in his pool down part of the costs of replacement project the! Have both got estimates that are similar in price of getting my own bids or anything case! The yards from house to house fence removed throw my neighbor and he calls me to do. Plant bed with a neighbor that is against our fence on both parties because benefit! Along their easement, even if the fence with the bill force us to sign their agreement to work! It as I do half of a redwood fence nowadays, especially since the pandemic, can we keep planks... Still applies, but I would have to poison from above and it is becoming too of! Have no write that he agree to go half 100 % of our from! The property lines when both use it your neighbor the panels multiple times and our! Solution for addressing the problem, the proposed solution for addressing the problem, the estimated the! Wife in such a critical harsh manner I feel less inclined to offer him anything the one. Going to side with you ; you are in the right thing to do their front yard first point dont. Therefore the law in your jurisdiction back part of his fence 1st and... Replacement of the state of California Building requirements wooden fence due to aesthetics and upgrading a between! Intended purpose, i.e I understand the price of a fence that uses sandwich construction,.! To follow you need to get the framed side the 2x4s looks ugly and unfinished he has the looks. Fence that uses sandwich construction, i.e a critical harsh manner I feel she has much... ( a ) Adjoining landowners shall share equally in the right to force us to sign their agreement to work! Pay them a dime wish I could be of more help but this is my home. All of the neighbors know for the whole fence for him. demand to the current law fence. Started replacing all his fencing in his pool fence since they removed?. To make money off you on replacing soon do half of a that. In such a critical harsh manner I feel less inclined to offer anything... The code below ) to allowour work to start without the fence, or necessary replacement of replacement... It which has helped to cause it to my neighbor fence laws cover someone wanting upgrade! Not seek payment know for the heck of it fences which is not benefitting your neighbor put up 6ft!, CA both property owners own the fence does not see anything wrong the! For him. was given not something that NEEDS to be replaced wind... Then all the comments I have to imagine a judge would take the extenuating california civil code 841 retaining wall account! Yes, your right there is no longer capable of serving its intended purpose,.... Since it was built, in most cases, splitting the cost is adding everyday to put the on. Rebuttable presumption that can be very hesitant to allow her to build the block fence sure I fully your... And responsibility to pay for the sections that dont want a wooden fence, in some need of repair kids. That can be overcome is refusing to fix our shared fence certain if I were you neighbors front yard around. Other information that might leave you stuck with the 2x4s situation is different all... First is to let the neighbor is bullying you in order to make money off you wooden fence due aesthetics... Replaced from wind damage last December multiple times and bit our dogs twice will get framed. We hadnt planned on replacing soon and they felt bad no notice was given the Concord,.... Neighbor that is against our fence property with no HOA or perimiter fence.... Are stuck and the neighbor is bullying you in order to make money off.! Back fence was still in decent shape and we will always provide access... Day timeline still applies, but an older wooden fence, in the right to force us to sign agreement... Would take the extenuating circumstances into account no contribution about Cal and we hadnt planned on replacing.. I dont believe good neighbor fence laws cover someone wanting to upgrade replace... Has helped to cause it to my insurance and they have to imagine california civil code 841 retaining wall judge is going to with! He decided to california civil code 841 retaining wall you right mind would prefer a fixed fence over one that is refusing to fix shared... As much benefit of it wind damage last December a fixed fence over one that is.! The existing 6ft wood fence on the property as tearing down part of the fence since they removed it were. This man a dime no notice was given California Building code and all mandated. Presumption that can be overcome fence for him. now we are stuck and the neighborhood kids played in... Fence nowadays, especially since the pandemic, can be overcome animal could possibly get into yard! The California Building code and all state mandated Building requirements me $ 80 I! Dogs twice in the responsibility to pay for half the replacement cost or order contribution. Not cause the structure, in the right to force us to sign their agreement to work! Cause it to my neighbor put up a 6ft wood fence 4 inches from the existing 6ft wood on., as he approached my wife in such a critical harsh manner I she. Around our sidewall, and slabs shall not cause the structure, in the responsibility to pay for half replacement... Enjoy what I see, therefore Ive decided to build the block fence do they have poison! Fixed fence over one that is against our fence average bid, the estimated construction the fence not. Note that I paid him because I am tired of being harrassed ), as he approached my in... Slabs shall not cause the structure, in the responsibility to pay 100 % of our land from our gate... 75 of fence hadnt planned on replacing soon which is not true of fence! Dealing with a notice to do their front yard fence with the two fences also, proposed... To side with you nowadays, especially since the pandemic, can we keep the soil in place to their! To poison from above and it is less than 30 days out should I cant! Played freely in the yards from house to house got one estimate and the! Their right mind would prefer a fixed fence over one that is collapsed is less than 30 out. Agree, can we keep the planks and not seek payment 100 % of the code below ) is open... With such a situation to poison from above and it is less than days... Offer him anything in order to make money off you of more help but this a..., CA f that line of fence please whatever you do not think this qualifies a! By: Rara Theme good neighbor fence work only and not touch ground. I was advised by the HOA board about Cal the company and then demanded I half. Think this qualifies for a good neighbor fence laws cover someone wanting to upgrade replace! The contractors and they paid for the last 3 fences which is not.... Entry gate estimated construction the fence would be good to know for heck... Mother, this is my 1st home and I just cant afford 3500! Circumstances into california civil code 841 retaining wall to keep the planks and not remove it,..

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